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Grenfell.

This page has been set up to comment on the tragedy, sparked by Sponheim and, frankly stupid remarks by some on Vaughnlive. He claims to have studied meteorology, so should be clued up about contrails. Sponheim has made spurious allegations and comments about this incident. Some Americans have given him credence. I DO NOT! His track record on such matters is strewn with totally inaccurate comments and ludicrous "conspiracy" videos.

David Jon Sponheim. Would be POTUS.

This would be politician goes online 6 days a week at vaughnlive putting forward his views. He has his own website with party policies etc. In some cases he claims things are faked or driven by some kind of conspiracy. He claims that the Grenfell Tower fire risk was deliberately set up.

Grenfell Tower Fire

David Sponheim has made claims that this was a deliberate fire and the plan was to demolish the tower. He also said "why is it still standing - it should have collapsed like the WTC". Simple - cast concrete with reinforcing does not normally collapse. Again totally disgusting moron. He has also passed on claims that the death toll is vastly understated. The final total is 71, including a stillborn baby.

The cladding issue

It turns out the outer cladding (from a policy originated under the Labour Blair government) does not comply with fire regulations. It would seem fortunate that this has not happened before, though perhaps a less severe incident could have prevented Grenfell. I suspect the Grenfell insulation was also a factor, not just the cladding.

I was chatting yesterday at Franktaylorlive when a regular posted the comment, mentioning my name, and stating "country's problems with terrorism and murder via fire." (see left) The topic was Social Studies - relevant to UK and USA Education. I had referred to UK examples. Why then does C777 post what she did? The law of murder is set out in common law. The legal definition of murder is 'the unlawful killing of a human being in the Queen's peace, with malice aforethought'.  The actus reus of murder consists of the unlawful killing of a human being in the Queen's peace. The mens rea of murder is malice aforethought, which has been interpreted by the courts as meaning intention to kill or intention to cause GBH. Whatever the Grenfell enquiry concludes, there is no way to justify Camille's use of the term "Murder" in her comment.

This was what an American mother had objected to and what OhioNorm was saying should not be taught in social studies in schools. Cam777 objected to my taking part in the discussion, though I was referring to what the UK schools do, not those on America.
The Five Pillars of Islam are the five obligations that every Muslim must satisfy in order to live a good and responsible life according to Islam.	The Five Pillars consist of:   Shahadah: sincerely reciting the Muslim profession of faith   Salat: performing ritual prayers in the proper way five times each day   Zakat: paying an alms (or charity) tax to benefit the poor and the needy   Sawm: fasting during the month of Ramadan   Hajj: pilgrimage to Mecca

	C777 now brings totally unrelated references into the chat. I imply she is using that to avoid answering me (A cop out) At this point S622 has to put her oar in. I refer to them as "Spamille" (not captured)
	Again a spurious comment. She then says we should ignore each other, when it is blindingly obvious she has not been doing that! She then claims a comment with my name on it is not to me, but to the room.

She then finally explains her comment. That does not, however warrant the use of the term "murder".   The law of murder is set out in common law. The legal definition of murder is 'the unlawful killing of a human being in the Queen's peace, with malice aforethought'.   Mistakes were clearly made, both before the tragic night and on the night itself. It was a totally unprecedented fire situation. The rate of spread was not anticipated and the advice given to the residents, sadly referred to the condition of the building before the cladding was installed. The original flat fire was put out, but flames had reached the cladding through an *open window and was climbing rapidly up the outside of the building and in through other windows. That problem was not anticipated. * Pvc inserts had been used to bridge the gap between the structural concrete and the cladding etc. That was a serious error.

Note that I posted that mistakes were made, but the term "murder" was wrong. C777 then says "Pat is very insensitive", which is a total lie. It was harrowing on the night to see people waving surrounded by flames.   I found her "I'm Bo Derek" comment extremely offensive and quite rightly was upset. She deserved a ban for that comment in my opinion. I'm not going to ignore her in chat. Some things about America are great, but they have elected a very bad choice for POTUS. It is crazy to cancel out things just because Obama did it. That should only happen if they are actually wrong for America. The attitude to gun ownership by NRA etc is dangerous, without limitation in firepower in the home and proper training in the care and use of firearms.

N***: So you think chemtrails exist? N***: She said she had screencapped all of it	O***N***: Ned the only person who talks about everything and knows nothing not even what he ate yesterday! move along and I dont think that was very nice bashing what 77 said and you screencap those chat convos very bad Ned
	O***N***: you really a sda human being take you BS elsewhere and leave this chat not one person enjoys talking to you you may have your head up franks ass but not fooling anyone else good day old man

Page created 13th July 2017. Last edited 17th June 2018.